today I'm here with my husband Bryce
and we are going to just be having a conversation
where he's gonna be asking me some questions
and I'm excited to let you all in
on whatever we end up talking about today
wherever it ends up going
so welcome Bryce
yeah it's good to be here Jan yeah
we did have to work through some of my anxieties
I don't know about yours prior to this
I don't know I can get kind of nervous
it feels like public speaking or something
versus me being alone in my office
and being able to pause and do all the things that I do
to help me feel safe and then being here
I'm glad we got to talk about that stuff
and work through it cool
me too
yeah that feels good
yeah yeah
and maybe the first place we could start is
I'm wondering for you what do you think we do really
really well what have we worked on um
the most where have we seen the most progress
what do we do really well
I think one of our best strengths as a couple is
I think that well
both of us individually I think
really do love and trust the other person
so I think at the core
even though sometimes how you are
or how I am might be triggering to the other person
like your needs might literally be the opposite of mine
or vice versa at times like
what helps your nervous system feel relaxed
might be the opposite of
what helps my nervous system feel relaxed
at any given moment
and
I think that we both do a really good job of trusting
that the other person is like
another person who's not trying to cause problems
who has needs just like each of us have needs
like it's almost like
it's almost like we're able to extend our self love out
and
and I I feel like I've done a lot of work
to practice seeing and loving you
with as much Grace and compassion
as I see and love myself
and then sometimes it's flip flopped right
like sometimes
it's easier for me to love you
and have compassion for you
than it is for me to love myself
but to kind of see that they're really
like two sides of one coin
or they're just mirrors of each other
right right yeah
and you brought up something that caught my attention
which I think is true and it can be hard to do
is to trust motives ultimately
like even if you are trying to get your needs met
I think there's also a motivation to get my needs met
and once if that gets
uh if there's some stories
that get inserted in the relationship
such as now I think this person is trying to control me
they're actually trying to hurt me
they actually don't care about me
that can cause a ton of damage
and I think it's taking a lot of time
to actively look for that
like how might you be trying to help me and you
at the same time mm hmm
um where can I see the care and the love
in what you're saying
sometimes that can be feedback you're giving me
um sometimes it can be the tone that you're using
um and I think that uh
yeah there
there's something just really
I don't know special about that
because it is hard sometimes
my brain wants to tell me that
you are being selfish right now
or something and maybe
maybe you are for a little bit
because you're activated and so am I
but then there's also this mirror maybe
like you're saying with the love that
you know the more
if I think that you're really
entrenched in your position
it might also be true that you're doing that
because I'm pretty entrenched in my position
like I think I'm really right
and then I'm like oh
I can't believe Jen like
she's not gonna budge on this
so there's this an equalizing thing that
I think we ultimately do when we resolve issues
which is like um
I think because there is a lot of respect between us
mm hmm I start to see
um the similarities in what we're doing
like if I don't feel like you're really caring about me
in any given moment it could
also be true
that you're experiencing the same thing on your end
and so that is something that I can
can go back to and focus on
is like oh
am I showing up enough for Jen
so that she feels cared about me
and yeah either way
the more the more basically
so the more that I can soften and listen and validate
the more I do feel like I get that back from you
and it's not always immediate
I think that's the tough thing about relationships
is like well if I just change my tone now
can you immediately change your tone
and everything will be better
but totally sometimes it takes a little bit of time
a little bit of work and patience
uh huh that seems really true
and I like when you use word motives
cause I've been trying to think like
what is the word it's like
it feels like we trust each other's
and that was it when you said motives
I'm like that was the word I've been looking for
it's almost like over time
we've been able to work through things
enough to see that we both
that we both care about not only our own needs
but we both care about the other person's too
and like you said
sometimes it doesn't immediately happen
that we figure out both simultaneously
but it's like I trust that you will come back to it
or stay with it long enough to
not only figure out what you need and want
and how to get those met but also how
what I'm needing and wanting and how to in
and how to integrate that
yeah
yeah so
I agree that
that's one of the things we probably do best
or really worked at mm hmm
the most and yeah
what do you think we've done to like
cultivate that over time more and more
well we've gotten a lot of support
we've we've received a lot of education
either pre our relationship and also during
and then there's an intentionality around it that
I don't know when it really clicked for me but um
it's been a while we've been together 11 years and
you know I think it it's
it's evolved but
I mean even in the last five or six years
I think I've been like hey
like if I really wanna make this relationship awesome
with you like
I have to keep trying to come back to this
and trust this and then I see it work
and then that's good then I'm like okay
there's something about what I'm doing here is working
and it's yeah
it is it is trusting your motives
and I realized like
I could always get burned
but that's that's part of relationship
you know and
and um
I don't you haven't burned me on that
and so I'm like okay I
I suppose the security is just built from that
yeah yeah
oh that's cool
yeah I like that
yeah and I think we also do
you know there's this whole conflict resolution cycle
where there's the lead up to it
there's the the conflict itself um
and then there's the repair
but then there's also I think what we do is
is a lot of times revisit things um
like afterwards sometimes the next day
or we're like oh yeah
I think that was that one pattern we get into
which I think primes us to see things coming
uh huh better down the road
so I don't know
I think I think we just have a lot of conversation
about how we're doing what's happening
um and we have a lot of space for that too
that's why
I don't think that other people should compare
their relationship to ours
because we don't have kids
we don't have dogs we set our life up in such a way
that we have so much time to do this
um
yeah I think that
that seems true yeah
that seems true yeah
so on the flip side
what do you think our our
is our biggest struggle
or some of our biggest struggles still
oh good question
let's see our biggest struggle
or some of our biggest struggles still
the first word that popped up when you asked
it just kind of popped up was like sensitivity
you know there can be pros and cons of these qualities
I was gonna say I
I see sensitivity as a gift in a lot of ways
which I do
but I still have a lot of judgment around sensitivity
I still judge myself a lot
when I'm sensitive about something
I might judge you if you're sensitive about something
and so I think when that happens
then I sometimes don't even catch the sensitivity
like if I'm feeling sensitive about something
and I judge myself about it
then I might not even catch that
that's what's happening for me
like a disagreement that came up yesterday around
around how to handle something with
with one of the couples retreats we have coming up
what I wanted to do
was different than what you wanted to do
but I was having a hard time
really owning what I wanted to do
I was having a hard time really being like no
this is just what I want and like
it feels really important to me
instead I've kept trying to explain why I wanted it
and
trying to defend why I wanted it to be done this way
which was tricky
cause then you came up with all of these reasons why
that didn't really make sense
yeah like my explanations didn't make sense or
or were like maybe they made sense
but they also like contradicted other things
yeah I have a compulsive nature to point that out
yes hahaha
yes hahaha
can be very analytical yes yeah
and even if your reasons are they do make sense
but I I don't know
sometimes my brain is like well
but I guess it doesn't really matter because
or something or totally it doesn't
yeah so yeah
so we can get into that that's one of our patterns
is your
you if I'm understanding it right
or this is how I'm seeing it is um
you might be trying to speak from um
there's an emotional thing
uh huh that's happening called a sensitivity
it just something feels better
uh huh yes
about option A option B
and then I'm like but you're giving me logic
and I'm like okay
let's go to the logic
and if I start to chip away at that
then you can feel more anxious
and sometimes I'm confused because I'm like
well this seems like we're having a logic
we're having a logical conversation
yep and
and not that I don't have feelings during
I'm not saying that I I'm emotionless the whole time
but yeah
like what gear to be in maybe yeah
mm hmm
yep
do you feel like it would have made a difference
like I'm thinking about yesterday
if I would have just said
I'm noticing as we're talking about this
I really do want this option most
and I could try to explain all my reasonings
but they may not logically make sense
I think it's just what
I just like the desire I'm having
well that made a difference
or not really I'll take a moment to think about it
and I do think that I had my own sensitivity about it
you know it's about money
whether to spend more or less nicer
less nice you know
and I think that there was gonna be some sensitivity
for me there either way
OK I think if you were to say
if I'm thinking about the perfect response
that might have gone best for me
I think if you were to say that
I don't know why but right now this is just what I want
this is the option that I want
and I know there might be reasons
that it doesn't make sense
but I I
that's just where I'm at with it right now
and we don't have to make a decision right now
but that's just that's just where I'm at
I think I would have been
you know it would give me some pause
um and I would have again
it would have engaged maybe that gear that
that emotional gear more
uh huh um
but who knows I mean
I might have started asking you questions
and I might have gone to the same place
yeah that's good
that's good to
that's good to know that that may have helped
or may not have yeah
I don't I don't know that
you know we'll do that sometimes
think about what the perfect response would have been
just more as an experiment
yeah like
here's what would have worked for me
and I do realize that it's not ever gonna be perfect
like we're not ever gonna run into conflicts
yeah I don't think there's a way to eliminate
some of these conflicts and sensitivities
maybe we have to go through it to understand it more
and and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing
right that seems very true
yeah'cause I think that's where
and I kind of feel myself take a deep breath'cause I'm
like oh yeah
I that's where I come back to like
I think you and I are both really sensitive
mm hmm and sometimes those sensitivities like
start touching each other
yeah and it's hard to like
slow way down and like
be with that
and talk about what's underneath the sensitivities
what are the fears underneath it
cause I think we got there like yesterday
but it kind of took a while
yesterday felt like it took a little while for me
yeah yeah
and I think we're at a disadvantage sometimes
because
I don't understand all the pressures that are on me
at all times cause even as you say oh
we could have slowed it down
and I'm like well
I also wanted to book a place right
like like
they're not gonna be there forever
so there's that pressure yeah
um
that's there and probably other things
yeah too
so uh huh
yeah I
I agree with you generally
that slowing it down could be helpful and um
and maybe this is where sometimes we can be different
to where you maybe you noticed this yesterday
well I'm like alright
well let's just book what you want
you know and it's almost like I
what might help me is like
make a decision right
and then I kind of relax a bit more
and then we can talk about it
like either one was gonna be fine
it's not yeah
it wasn't it wasn't a huge deal right
um so you might be like
let's slow it down not make a decision
and that'll help my
that'll help my nervous system relax
I'm like well
how about we just make a decision
and then my nervous system relax
and then we can talk about it if we need to
or something so I think that is a
maybe a thing that we might be different on sometimes
and that's true yeah
that's like a good example of one where
I actually
didn't have a problem with just making the decision
except I was feeling so much shame and guilt
about it just being my way
for you
it might have felt better just to make a decision
and then your
which one you wanted was like secondary to that
I wasn't even totally sure either
to be honest oh okay
you know I was feeling it out myself too
but it's like
I didn't want to let go of a potential desire
as I was feeling it out yeah
that makes sense
so I think when you said it wasn't super strong right
the opinion I had cause you brought up points
I think like I told you
I'm like ah
well given your points
I can see it um
so that's another complexity right
like it's not
it wasn't a binary like
I want option A and you want option B
I was like ah
like I'm not totally sure yet
and your opinion was influencing my opinion
and then I started to kind of side more with like
all right you know
Jen's
that's fine you know
and sometimes I want a decision to feel so good
so then
I was a bit disappointed that this didn't feel good
it was like I'm kind of going with
I guess that's okay first was like oh
I really feel good about this
right right
that makes sense and I was probably in a similar
well it's probably one of those things where
if I would have gotten on
and taking care of the task by myself
cause that was initially
what I thought was gonna happen
was I was gonna get on and book the house
then I I felt really
pretty comfortable about the direction
I wanted to go with it for this retreat
um and then when you came forward and you're like oh
here's a few options
then I kind of got a little confused too
like right
oh yeah
maybe one of those other options
and so yeah so then I'm a little bit confused
you're kind of like
having your feelings
it was just a lot for some reason
I'm not sure why it was such a hard one yesterday
yeah and that's maybe what I'm saying
cause it didn't feel that hard for me
yeah actually
and this is sometimes maybe where some of our
I don't know if you wanna call it tolerance
tolerance differences come from two
or sometimes you can be like
that was so hard I'm like
didn't seem that hard yeah right
like we aren't
we weren't yelling at each other
we're not name calling we never
we don't do that no
we just are having a difference of opinion
and we're sharing our reasonings for our differences
but it just felt like it like
started to escalate energetically for me
for you where for you it wasn't as much
no that's what you're saying
yeah yeah
it was weird
I don't know why yesterday's was so hard for me
like you were feeling a lot of shame and guilt right
yeah I think that's why
like brought up a lot of shame and guilt yeah
I don't think I was feeling shame about it
mm hmm
yeah that makes sense
um
not saying that that's not down in there deep somewhere
yes but that wasn't something I was aware of um
yeah and
and I don't know if I'm just doing the guy thing saying
like I was pretty confused by it
um there was fear
there was fear there uh huh
um that it wouldn't feel good for you
wouldn't feel good for me
and we'd feel disconnected
that that's true
but I don't think I was feeling shame about it
in the way you were no
it didn't seem like you were
yeah which is nice that we weren't both feeling that
yeah yeah
but I don't know if that's why it felt bigger for you
felt you know
that can be like an existential
yes feeling of not good enough yes
oh yeah
I think it like
it definitely touched into that
that part for me of
like
what I'm wanting
or my opinion or what I'm feeling strongly about
somehow is the opposite of your need or want or desire
or something that's like the story in my head
the story in my head is like oh
what I'm wanting or needing or desiring
or my opinion is somehow the opposite of Bryce's
and therefore if
if we end up doing it my way
well yeah
maybe I get what I want and need
but then you don't and that
then I am like don't feel good about myself as a person
right right
mm hmm
yeah that makes sense Jen
Mm hmm yeah yeah
and even though this is a podcast and we're consciously
you know revisiting this in a way
mm hmm we might have had this conversation anyways
on the couch yeah
about it totally
and
even though I don't feel like
I totally understand your experience with that
like there's
maybe I understand it 10% better
mm hmm or something that
that if I don't get what I want
you feel like you're
you've said maybe like you're a bad person
yeah a bad wife
not a good wife not a good wife
if I don't get what I want
uh huh it's like ton
ton of conditioning there
uh huh um
versus I don't know that I
I have that some generally
uh huh
but mine is a little bit different
I would say when you're
and this is maybe where it's not so much like
I do feel like you get a lot of what you want
and I try to make that happen
yeah um
mine is maybe more when you're feeling disconnected
or nervous around me and again
I don't know if that's shame or like
uh
I don't know just a feeling of disconnection
like I don't like that feeling
um
and we've talked about how yours can be a
more of a being state
anxiety and mine can be more of a doing state
and there can be and yeah
there can be anxiety that I'm not doing the right moves
to help you feel safe or relaxed or
or really get what you want
but I don't know this is an ongoing topic of like where
where do where do I
if I do feel shame in our relationship
because in contrast to you
I'm like you'll say things and I'll be like
I can't relate with that yeah
in the same way yeah
it's interesting cause you're saying
I even feel like a little bit of emotion
like I noticed my eyes starting to water a little bit
and I just feel like a lot of compassion for
all of a sudden for both of us
I'm like seeing the two of us dancing and
you know hitting a
a bump and
and then I think maybe
this is where the sensitivity piece comes back in
where
I think we're both really sensitive to disconnection
or I can be really sensitive
if I'm perceiving we're not both getting our needs met
or both getting what we want
um or you can feel really sensitive to like
a disconnection with me and yeah
yeah and it's interesting
cause I can see how that can both be hard
cause of the triggers it can create
but I'm like I feel like
a lot of love and compassion for those parts of us
in this moment
yeah
I think that's like
a lot of what motivates us to understand ourselves
and each other more deeply
yeah yeah
when I was just thinking there
one theory is that like earlier on in my life
I think I did feel a lot of shame
like feeling suicidal as a teenager
and totally screwing up my life
and that was shame for sure
like I had because of things I was doing
like I was hurting other people lying
um
yeah just making a mess of my life
to where I didn't feel like I was either worthy
or belonged or was ever going to
you know live
live a good life or be happy again
that feels very much like shame
so I don't know
maybe in compared comparatively
like I'm like oh
we're trying to decide on a retreat house
for our business
you know I'm between two good options
two good I mean
it seems such low stakes that I don't like
shame doesn't come into the equation
mm hmm for me
mm hmm um
and I don't know if that's past
a past experience thing yeah yeah
that is interesting
yeah I wonder too
I wonder for me cause when I think about my past
my past was so much more oriented that like
if I was dating someone
or I was interested in a man and he wanted something
I just went with what he wanted
mm hmm like
I wouldn't have like
gone out of my way to be like
oh no
I want this thing that's different
so I'm not exactly sure what that means
but I'm just thinking about how
now we have the whole religious component
like your
your ticket into the highest kingdom of heaven
comes through a man marrying a man
and staying sealed to a man
and make and you could even say I
you can disagree if you want
but making uh
him feel happy uh huh
and that's like
your ticket that's your eternal ticket right there
so if you were told that enough times as a girl
imagine that was there and
you know I'm
I don't believe that way right
but
it doesn't mean that the software isn't still in there
yeah and I could see how like
I definitely had a story that like
for a man to love me and choose me
I had to make his life comfortable
I had to not cause hard feelings for him
like if I caused hard feelings
then why would he love me or choose me
right mm hmm
and that's probably kind of the core of the fear still
of the shame
like when I think about shame
it is interesting how often I go back to like
it is a story it's like
a reflection that
I'm believing I'm fundamentally flawed
but it's not just connected to that
it's connected to that
in reference to being able to create something I want
it's like I'm believing I'm fundamentally flawed
and therefore I cannot have the thing I want right
it's like in reference to the thing I want
which is to be loved or chosen or sure desired
yeah that's interesting
yeah yeah
it is and
and I you know
I think maybe the non religious background
and having two parents that
were there for me um
in a lot of ways you know
like definitely had some misses emotionally
but still we're there emotionally
and then for sure physically
and I don't know
I just don't know where that story would have been
ever inserted that I wasn't worthy
like I was first born son
my dad thought I was the greatest
you know so did my mom
I think so I didn't
I just don't remember that ever being inserted as like
who I was is faulty
when I felt like I wasn't living up to that
by what I was doing then it
that felt like a crisis mm hmm
that I and that I didn't know how to solve
that is get out of that's really interesting
but the core of who I was
I was like again
it was like
more about what I was doing
I'm like why am I not doing what I think I'm capable of
because I am you know
worthy of these things but there was a huge disconnect
but I don't know once I started
once I got sober once
I was like
again doing things that were improving my life
and I was getting to do things that I wanted to do
all of a sudden I'm like
mm hmm there was an alignment there like
oh yeah
of course this is
I'm so glad I
I hoped that I would be able to do this
that just makes a lot of sense
knowing your worth was there
but the ability to enact behaviors
that seemed aligned with that
was like the struggle
I suddenly felt curious like
cause I can be kind of the opposite right
I look back at my past I'm like
I felt like my actions were very aligned with like
my inner sense of the worth
I wanted to experience in myself
right uh huh
but I had a hard time
feeling the experience of worth inside myself
and still do sometimes
so for you what feels like
it created that disconnect between the two
does that make sense yeah
yeah I think it was a combination of things
but more than anything
when we moved from Michigan to Arkansas
when I was almost twelve it was extremely traumatic
and I don't think I recovered from it
like we moved
you know I had a few close friends
I was a quiet kid we had woods behind our house
I had a dog my
my dog ran away right before we moved
never saw it again that I grew up with
um
I they didn't have wrestling in Arkansas
I was used to doing being around other kids
and doing sports all through the year um
and I just got super depressed
like my dad went from working in the house
to working outside the house
working a lot um
so I just it was traumatic
it was so jarring I think for me
coming into puberty as well
there could have been hormonal things too
but I was just I mean
within weeks
I think I was severely depressed after moving
and didn't have any friends
and didn't know how to make friends
and I don't think my parents knew what to do
my dad was
he was yeah
I just don't have a lot of memories of him then
cause he was working
and I think my mom was probably depressed
um you know
she had the same situation
she moved to Arkansas we didn't know anybody there
so it was kind of like me and my mom in the house
depressed my sister was like
pretty social butterfly
she found a neighbor pretty quick
had the same name Blair
they were the Blairs but I was just a fucking lonely
and it I think it was very traumatic
and then I didn't have any way
I didn't have an attunement to that
I didn't have any help with that
not that
my parents wouldn't have been available to do that
but I couldn't communicate what was happening
so quickly my mind started to spin in my head
it went like I don't like this
to just getting worn out to feeling numb
and then from numbness like
I think that's why a lot of men
struggle with depression and even can feel suicidal
cause once you get to like a numb place
where you're not feeling anything
and everything looks black and white
it's almost like you're
you become an object within like uh
some type of cartoonish world that's
that's not real or something
and then it might even make sense that
why am I even here
cause it doesn't feel real anyways
it doesn't nothing feels good about this
it either feels bad or nothing
and so I think a logical conclusion is like
well how can I get out of this
and again
I don't think the prefrontal cortex is online as much
when people are thinking like that
they're just living in their fight or flight
freeze response or as I was
so I was you know
very much in some type of free state
where it's just disassociated
and then yeah
the thought creeps in
and I don't have defenses against it
I don't have a way to say no
that's just how you're feeling right now like
or I didn't have a way to think
to go talk to somebody and like
here's how I'm really feeling um
and to get support in that way and connection
so yeah once
once that happened over the course of a few months um
just super disconnected
and the interesting thing that I think really saved me
was that I was like
well maybe I'll just go for it
I'll like be a new person
so at school I started hanging out with the kids
who were troublemakers cause I could
there was like a resonance in like
the pain you know
I had a lot of friends with
from troubled homes and broken families
and that we're already getting in trouble in school
and I just started having so much fun all of a sudden
you know I remember the first time
like in sixth grade
I threw a eraser across the room
you know and like
all the kids laughed and uh
and I was and that was just like
from then on I was like whoa interesting
like
if I hang out with these kids and do what they're doing
and do a few crazy things
like I get other kids attention
that feels good feels like I belong
feels like I'm important I'm funny
um and then this whole character kind of got created
um so
I mean you've heard this story before
but yeah
that's interesting and
you know that LED me down a different path
but that's kind of how it went
yeah that makes a lot of sense
yeah yeah thanks for sharing that
yeah how does it feel in this moment to talk about it
oh good
it it's
it's interesting to me um
my
yeah my life story is interesting to me
it feels like it's like uh
because it is me sometimes
it's like the most interesting book I've ever read and
and I I like
it's like popping open a page of it and
and reading it again and be like
oh yeah
that was me that was crazy
you know
and interesting to to see
to see where I've come from
yeah so it's
I'd say it's fun yeah
I was imagining like
when I used to go to the children's museum
as a young girl
I loved going to the bone excavation area
where you'd like
dig for the bones and then like
uh huh I don't know
for some reason also I was imagining that like
you're excavating your history a little bit
yeah and looking at what was there and what had built
what has happened and yeah
that's interesting yeah
yeah it's funny
cause I realized that
it helped to start off as just me interviewing you
but then like
it's become more of a conversation
but um
I did want to think of another question for you um
and I think the question is
like when you're
'cause I don't always understand
the female experience as well as you do
um like
where do you where do you think
women get stuck the most in relationships
what do you see the most
and how do you help women with that
yeah so what I see and I don't know that this is this
you know if we were to take all
however many billion people are on the earth now
how many is it like eight
eight we took all
like 8 billion people and about half of those are women
like what's true for all women
I don't know um
but I do feel like
in my little realm of world that with clients I see
and people and women I observe and friends and myself
what's the biggest struggle
did you say relationally or just in general
either one what was your question though initially
I'm curious I think it was um
what do you see the most with women
what are their struggles and how do you help them
yeah
so probably I would say
the word self trust is popping up
I see a lot of women struggle to like
deeply trust themselves
like a lot of women it seems like
whether it's a biological thing or conditioning
or some mix of the two
there just seems to be an outsourcing of
authority really
I mean that's probably the biggest thing
like
some kind of an outsourcing of authority mixed with
wanting to be a good person
and I think that that is somehow like
seems somehow intertwined with safety as well
so I see just a lot of women who
I think grew up really
believing they were going to be taken care of by a man
probably
and want to experience some kind of like
feminine masculine
energetic balance
if if that makes sense
where there's like
where they feel like they can receive care
receive Protection receive support
right which I could see
sounds nice totally totally
and then there's also
and then I think too
it's like I think there can be a little bit
of confusion for women
because I think they really wanna receive that
and then they also they also wanna give it
you know like
they also want to give love and give care
like
I know women who feel like they're maybe receiving it
but they aren't reciprocating it back
like they don't feel the desires back
and that can actually be quite distressing for women
too
but there's something around
trusting themselves that seems like how to slow down
and
maybe this even connects to what I was talking about
earlier with our situation yesterday
where instead of a woman trusting
her feelings her thoughts
her body sensations not as like
yeah stand up for a minute
yeah that's a very uncomfortable position
I have to untwist my back
hahaha
I'm gonna untwist my legs
um but I can just keep chatting
are you good with that yeah yeah so
there's something around women feeling like
they have to explain themselves
like I see that
I see that a lot with women
mm hmm and I'm
when I say trust their feelings and their thoughts
I'm not saying believe all of your feelings
and believe all of your thoughts just as they are
but like
to trust that there's something in there
that is important like
that your thoughts and your feelings
are revealing something about your inner world
and your desires
and if you can learn to work with those in that way
and to trust that like your
your inner world and your desires
are are safe
they're safe they don't
they're not they don't cause you problems
they don't cause people around you problems
they're not bad
I think if women can really learn how to do that
what if it does though
what if desires do cause problems
I mean on the surface right
yeah so I think if does
if your true authentic desire causes problems
then
I would say the problems it's causing are more that
that that is breaking down egos of people around you
and that can be called problems
right but I think in the long run
it provides a lot of opportunity for growth
you're saying
you're saying that it creates a bit of a filter
that people that can't really hold
and acknowledge and honor your desires
like the those people might end up leaving your life
totally right totally right
yeah yeah
I think that can be hard with personal development
relational development is like
if you are growing it's inevitable
that you're gonna have to let some relationships go
people that don't wanna grow with you
and that's especially hard if that's your spouse
or a good friend or some other family member
but um
yeah I've
I've experienced that and it can be confusing like oh
why don't you you know
why don't you wanna try to work this out and
and just some people don't
but also on the flip side
different people can come into your life um
that they can meet you there
uh huh and hopefully that's a partner
yep um
and I wonder if I'm just going off on my own
I'm curious but yeah
I do wonder if women are raising the bar a bit
like part of that process is like
raising the bar and um
when they find I mean
I hear this from the single women that I work with
like they don't feel like a man can meet them there
and they're still single and it's
it can be frustrating confusing
like where are all the
the relationally developed men at
and I think they're out there
but it's not the majority
it doesn't seem yeah
so yeah
it's it's more limited
and it can feel more lonely
I think that's true and I
when you said that I got goosebumps
you said I think women are raising the bar
I'm like I think that is happening
yeah mm hmm
yeah yeah'cause you see what happens when
um like
if you really wanna lower the bar
it's not hard to find a partner
mmm hmm I don't think
you know it's
mmm hmm there's plenty of people out there that will
if you're like oh yeah
I don't have needs
and I'll just try to give you what you want
like there's a lot of people out there
that would sign up for that but
but if you're like no
I wanna learn how to have um
a really growth oriented relationship
where we're learning together
receiving support together
um really facing our fears in
in big ways then
yeah I think that's gonna freak a lot of people out
and in fact
I don't think a lot of men even get what that means
cause that's something I hear from men
like it just seems like you're asking for a lot
you're asking for more but what is that thing
and I've used my podcast to try to explain that more
um
that there there are some very simple things that that
that that apply
and then yeah
just really being on the journey
having that mindset
you're willing to be on the journey of learning is
is more than anything the thing that I think women want
but if you give up or shut down
then yeah I
I don't think that's gonna work for people
and Bryce is talking about his podcast
men and marriage so if you haven't listened to that
it's relationships made simple
oh that's right
your book is called men and marriage
my book is called men and Marriage
Relationships Made Simple for men is the podcast
exactly I love that you're doing that for men
I love it so much yeah yeah
that was a good question yeah
you're welcome yeah
does this feel like a good place to wrap it up
really good feels perfect
any announcements if you're interested in coaching
private coaching as an individual
with either Bryce or I or you can meet with both of us
meet with him sometimes me
sometimes whatever
if you're interested in individual coaching
or couples coaching so for couples coaching
we do our coaching together
the two of us with the two of you
and then or if you're interested in a retreat
Bryce has a men's retreat coming up here pretty soon
so yep
September 25th to 28th yep
so if you're interested in that
um
I'm gonna link our websites below so you can contact us
um set up an initial discounted session
if you're interested in coaching
we also do private couples retreats
and so there's a lot of options
I'll link the website in the show notes
and anything else from your end
no I think that's it
good chat today Jen
you too Bryce
thanks for doing this you're welcome
okay bye everyone bye
